Reviewing The Whatever Podcast Debate
Hello everyone,
Recently, there was a debate on the Whatever podcast between Lila Rose and Trent Horn versus Destiny and Jazmen Jafar. The podcast revealed the limits, negative consequences, and dysfunctions of Destiny and Jazmen Jafar’s ethical systems.
Overview of Destiny and Jazmen’s Flawed Beliefs
To start, Destiny and Jazmen Jafar’s philosophies are rooted in hedonism. They do what they do and believe what they believe because it feels good. They do not have higher values or ideals. They seek to satiate their fleeting urges.
Because their ideals and beliefs are rooted in hedonism, they can’t appeal to higher, transcendent concepts for their values. They have to appeal to the flawed metrics of research and data.
The idea that we can only derive truth from statistics, pleasure, and consent is somewhat nonsensical. Consent-based ethics, statistics, or data cannot reveal complex truths.
Sex And The Failures of Hedonism
For example, Trent Horn argues that incest is always wrong. However, a hedonistic worldview cannot make this moral claim. As Destiny jokingly responds, he would have sex with his sister (as a hypothetical) if “she was hot enough.”
Hedonists do not view sex as valuable beyond the physical act and the pleasures derived from it. Thus, they cannot appeal to higher ideals about the purpose of sex, the disgust one feels towards degenerate sexual lifestyles (such as pedophilia), and how chastity is valuable and virtuous.
Destiny cannot argue against incest through a hedonistic worldview because as long as it feels good and there is consent, it is permitted. This is why Destiny and Jasmine cannot give any meaningful pushback to bestiality, incest, 10-year-old girls watching pornography, and other heinous ideas.
And consent-based ethics doesn’t work. Sure, we can say “children can’t consent to sex,” but if they are “mature” enough to choose their gender, then yes, they can consent to sex. All it takes is more trips down the slippery slope, and the “restraints” set forth by hedonists fall apart as more and more activities become permissible.
Destiny and Jasmine’s value systems rest in “because it feels good,” and such an ideology cannot fight, let alone defeat, evil.
The Obvious Limits of Statistics, Data, and Research
If you base your morality on virtue ethics, you can have a firmer foundation against such hedonistic tendencies. Virtue appeals to timeless ideals based on observable human traits, generalized outcomes, and logical axiomatic truths. Virtue also forces individuals away from their comforts, where vice reigns supreme.
Unfortunately, Destiny and Jasmine disagree with virtue ethics because they want to pursue what feels good. They believe they act rationally because statistics, data, and research support their hedonistic pleasures. But they are lying to themselves.
We Justify Our Vices; We Don’t Concede to the Facts
Firstly, one must concede that most people find desirable actions, and then seek justifications. One does not pursue porn or casual sex because it is challenging. One does these things because they are easy and pleasurable.
Unlike raising a family or exercising, there are no barriers to sexual deviance. Thus, Destiny and Jasmine, along with other hedonists, are automatically compelled to find cherry-picked data that support their lifestyles.
Why? Because a family proves itself within the quality of the children and the healthiness of the marriage. Exercise proves itself with the discipline it builds and the strength it provides. You don’t need a study to prove that exercise makes you feel better. You are the evidence you seek.
But with pornography, a man who is tired, lost, and restless will need to justify his usage. His life shows how porn or casual sex has failed him. So, he seeks external justification to make himself feel secure in his vice.
Most Studies Aren’t Reliable
Secondly, as Trent Horn highlights, up to 70% of social psychology studies cannot be easily recreated or replicated. This should cast some doubt on these studies' validity as well as relying too heavily on them to build one’s worldview.
People Don’t Listen To Facts, Anyway
Thirdly, both Jasmine and Detiny reject the facts when such facts are conclusively against them.
For example, Destiny was in a polyamorous relationship that is ending. Polyamorous relationships fail upward to 92% of the time.
However, he dares to criticize a 50% divorce rate when he got involved in a relationship type with such a high failure rate. He doesn't actually follow the data when it disagrees with him. He simply follows what feels good and finds the data that justifies what feels good.
Abstractions Require Greater Thinking Than Flawed Data
Fourthly, Destiny and Jasmine pretend not to understand abstractions or trends unless presented with raw data.
For example, they want Trent and Lila to provide data on extreme pornography usage over time. There is no such data.
But the logical indicators the duo use to reach their conclusion (such as the search history on PornHub) are completely lost on Destiny. He needs studies and numbers because he knows that the realm of abstract and standards will benefit his debate opponents more than him.
Statistics Can’t Tell You What You Ought To Do
Lastly, even the statistics cannot clearly answer what people ought to do. Jasmine frequently concedes during the debate that the research on the negative outcomes of porn usage is “mixed at best.” If we can say, through “data and research,” that porn is bad for 50% of users, then what principle does one have for not engaging with it?
For Trent and Lila, sex has a unique, divine purpose. Because of this purpose, which can be argued secularly as well as religiously, one should not treat sex casually but treat it with reverence. Not only does such maturity bring clear benefits to the individual and society, but it also helps us navigate more contentious issues surrounding sex with grace and confidence.
Destiny and Jasmine’s standard for still supporting sex work, even though the data isn’t conclusive, has nothing to do with higher concepts. Has the inconclusive data pushed Jazmen to rethink her porn career? Of course not. Her standard is what feels good and what benefits her. She has no appeal to virtue.
The Comparison Between The Debaters
And I want to end by highlighting the different debaters. Trent Horn is happily married with children. Regardless of what you think about Catholicism, I’m confident his children will grow up to be well-adjusted, productive members of society. Additionally, Trent Horn is incredibly well-read, physically fit, and mentally sharp.
Lile Rose is an accomplished woman who has debated about and spoken often on abortion. She is clearly educated. She is also married with children and carries herself with grace and class.
Destiny is physically unfit. He is a consistent drug user. He has one failed marriage and is currently going through a divorce. He has a child from his previous marriage, whom he admitted he would have aborted if he had different views in the past. He has broken many women’s hearts and has had stalkers and constant internet drama stemming from his sexually counterproductive lifestyle.
Jazmen runs an OnlyFans. Her potential children and parents can never sit down and appreciate her “work,” whereas Lila Rose will never have that problem. In every debate I’ve ever seen Jazmen in, she always has her breasts on full display. She frequently mentions that she’s a lawyer but is constantly shown to be ignorant of the law, the history of our country, and the Christian ethics of the Founding Fathers.
If you universalized the behaviors of Trent and Lila, our society would thrive. If you universalize the behaviors of Destiny and Jazmen, our society will collapse within a decade.
Virtue Always Beats Hedonism
Trent and Lila are arguing for universal truths beyond what is temporary and convenient in the here and now. Destiny and Jazmen are arguing within the confines of today. They have no great moral principles that can be universalized. They only have appetites that need to be satiated by what is degrading and unstable.
This conversation shows the inherent weakness of the hedonistic lifestyle. Data, flowery worlds, and sophistry cannot cover a lack of principles. Saying “there isn’t data” is not an argument.
Set the foundation of your beliefs and values in virtue. Control your urges. Focus on self-improvement, and you can leave the world of addicts and losers behind.
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